A reader who is a happy Verizon’s FIOS customer left an interesting comment on one of the older posts. He said he loved the service, but decided to save some cash and wanted to switch back to the older technologies.
My problem is that Verizon monopolizes your house once FIOS is installed. By removing your copper wire you are now forced to stay with Verizon until other carriers have fiber optic capabilities. I did not find out about this until I wanted to switch back to DSL to save some money. They said “Nope, can’t”
I have not heard of this before, and if you have, then drop me a note, or leave a comment. It is understandable given that they are spending a lot of money rolling out the service, but why rip out the copper?
Yes. I’ve seen this on Broadband Reports forums and on Vonage forums. My understanding is that they take the copper away if you’re already a Verizon phone customer, but that they might leave it in place if you get your phone line from another provider. If you want the copper line re-installed, then you’ll have to get it done by another provider.
I’m a FiOS user and I love it. Not sure how you could change back to DSL after using it because it just plains SMOKES. But here’s what I’ve heard…
Verizon has EOL’d copper in my area. It’s going all fiber. From what I understand, all new installs will be fiber (even for just pone service) and anytime they can they will switch customers over, like when FiOS gets intsalled. Since the POTS is giving way to VoIP this just makes sense. It’s all about speed and no way you slice it is copper going to beat FTTP in a speed test.
I just had the oddest conversation with Verizon, I was checking FiOS availability and my address wouldn’t come up in their data base. I’m in Sunnyvale CA, pretty much the heart of Silicon valley. After getting bumped around a bit I spoke with somebody in their fiber depart who told me they are not planing to roll fiber to Sunnyvale, or the surrounding areas, ever, no plans for any of the cities.
Can this be right? Some sort of non compete deal with SBC or something? Weird and sad, since my SBC dsl is pretty substandard performance wise and… well lets just I have had some unfortunate experiences with Comcast.
I used to have FiOS at my home in Lewisville, TX – a townhome community where Verizon laid only fiber, no copper anywhere in the community.
I had the 15MB/5MB connection with Vonage over the line. It was FANTASTIC!!! I did so fricking much, unbelievable…..
I was actually saving money since I took the data only service for FiOS + Vonage= 65 incl taxes…
I had to move to WA and I hated selling the house and getting back to DSL (shiate!!!) 🙁
I am a very satisfied FiOS customer and, yes, Verizon uninstalled the copper from house-to-street in my installation. The fiber install was very professionally done (from house to street and in the house), while my old copper seemed to be to be “hanging by a thread”, probably in place for many many years.
I agree with J Gales that, once you get FiOS, it is hard to imagine going back to DSL. In my subscriber zone (Westchester County NY) the charge is only marginally higher for fiber and of course the performance is tremendously higher. My VoIP service is very good (using the Vonage/Linksys router) as well, so I can not imagine going back to POTS either. VoIP over fiber + high-speed data over same fiber – isn’t this the Holy Grail (at just $44/month, $34 if you keep your POTS service with Verizon)?
Regarding the “monopoly” worry – I see none. My local cable operator would be more than happy to give me free installation of a “triple play” package (voice, data, content) as soon as I become dis-satisfied with Verizon. However, is it not also true that Verizon – as the incumbent RBOC – is required to provide “universal service” in its coverage area? If Verizon of its own accord has torn out your copper but you become dis-satisfied with their FiOS data service, it would seem that Verizon would STILL have to provide you POTS service through the fiber or de-install it and give you your copper back.
If you go and look at Verizon’s investor presentations at the time the launched FOIS, they made the point that half the benefit of FTTH is the lower maintainance costs – local loop fibre has lower maintainance costs than local loop copper (partly because with fibre there’s no powered equipment between the exchange and the customer premises). If they leave the copper in place they don’t get that benefit.
Why rip out the copper? Because telcos pay tax on assets…rip out the asset, no tax. Makes sense to me. Lowers the cost for everyone. Let’s be a little reasonable here.
No question that Verizon is ripping up copper. In addition to taking away your ability to ever get lower cost DSL, it removes you ability to obtain competitive service from a COVAD or other comptitive LEC that leases copper to provide end user services. (Verizon is currently required to lease a “voice grade channel,” but it’s not clear that they actually do.)
Note that Verizon’s claim to “reduce maintenance” costs is baloney. Verizon is also telling Wall Street that they will not install FiOS unless someone orders a fiber-based service, like video or high-speed. This “success based cap-ex” is their answer to why they won’t go broke installing, but it also undermines Verizon’s claim that it will save on maintenance. For as long as Verizon only installs to people who buy additional services, they will be maintaining TWO NETWORKS — one the old copper network and one FiOS, all in the same neighborhood.
Amazingly, Verizon also touts that it will stop investmment in maintenance of copper. What this means for grandma and others who don’t have the money for FiOS is unclear, but given the deteriorating services, it cannot be good.
Verizon will do whatever is most cost-effective.
If you live in a neighborhood with underground plant, Verizon will leave the copper in the ground. It’s nice and safely out of the way, and they’re not going to pay installers to rip up your yard. All they’ll do is move the inside wiring from the NT to the ONT.
If you live in a neighborhood with aerial plant, I could see Verizon removing the drop. It’s easy (read: “cheap”) enough to do, and it’s one less thing to worry about.
Knowing how telcos think, I’m sure that someone at Verizon sat down and calculated the cost of removing aerial and underground copper drops in FiOS installs, calculated the expected incremental cost of maintenance activity due to inactive copper drops, and concluded that the most cost-effective decision was to remove aerial drops when they do FiOS installs.
With all respect, that doesn’t make Verizon a monopoly. The monopoly is held by the local cable companies who own the franchises and are spending HUGE lobbying dollars to make sure no one else can get a franchise. That’s a true public-private monopoly that benefits to municipality, benefits the corporate entity, but screws the consumer.
http://channelchanger.typepad.com/
Arguing the merits of RBOC vs. Cableco is like arguing Hitler vs. Stalin. I think Comcast has better customer service than Verizon, but that is about the limit of my ability to praise them.
5 months after fios is on line in a central office area, Verizon can replace a pots line w/fios . If you are already a DSL customer you will get fios 5mg at your present rate until your agreement is up. Check this review From Keller Tx. for fios tv http://www.i4u.com/article4365.html
Hi, I am a Lead Verizon FiOS Tech in Pennsylvania. I was reading all of the comments in the above “Posts” and just wanted to take a second to clarify some things. We do indeed remove the copper when we install the new service to your home. The reason for this, the only reason, is so that Joe Blo can’t go out and buy a “LOT” of phone numbers and supply a dial tone (Over a network that Verizon payed to build.) over lines and equipment which we are forced to lease to them at a lower cost than than it costs us to run and maintain them. As for the monopoly, there is no law that says a willing company can’t go out and build it’s own network to supply service to it’s customers. Verizon had to start from scratch at one point. Also, we ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT required to offer a voice grade signal over our FiOS network. If COVAD (i.e) wants to give you voice service after we install FiOS, the must run their own line. As for the maintenence issue. FiOS greatly reduces maintenence over our network. 90% of all of our maintenence is water related. No matter how you slice it or how well you protect it, water will ALWAYS find its way into your cable. This is a bad thing when you are dealing with electricity as everyone knows. With FiOS however, water is not an issue. It is a non conductive material. You can never have static or a hum over FiOS unles the trouble is inside your home. You either have light or you don’t. If we get a trouble ticket on a FiOS customer it is almost always inside the house and very rarely in the network. If by some chance it is in the network, there are very few things that it can be. Usually, it’s a “Pole Hit” which removed the Fiber Optic Cable completely.
Another note: We will and DO install FiOS service if someone simply wants to upgrade from copper to Fiber. We have many “Voice Only” service orders. As long as the service is passing their home, they can get it. As a matter of a fact, some new developments opt for a “Fiber Only” ifrastructure. This is known as a “Green Field.” There is no copper at all and many customers order voice only. I hope that these posts clear some things up. I am by no means disgruntled and do indeed respect the opinions of others. I understand that many people have a beef with Verizon, I have a few myself and I’m an employee!!! : ) However, this FiOS technology is absolutely the way of the future in the world of broadband. Nothing travels faster than light and it’s bandwidth is only restricted by the speed of the equipment connected to it.
Fios is the best way to deliver the best quality voice Video and Data, Verizon is investing for a better future for the Company and its stock owners.Their Fios services are great!!!! and Verizon has the experience (something that you cannot buy). The Cable companies made a big mistake when they desided not to invest in the new technologies. By the time they wake up it will be too late. I feel Verizon is far ahead now
like a true Leader and soon there will be no more competition……we will just call Verizon for all of our telecomunication needs and there is nothing wrong with that…….Verizon earned it!!!
I have read all the posts, most positive. I will be the first to note a problem. I have just installed FIOS on Dec 21. I have the 2/15 service. The broadband connection, so far has been excellent. The problem I have been having is, when some people call my house they get a busy signal, even when both of my phone lines are not in use. I have 2 phone lines, if line 1 is busy it will go to line 2. I called verizon. they said they checked and they say the problem is in my house. I have not changed anything except removing the dsl filter. I have 2 radio shack 2 line phones and 2 wireless phones. Perhaps the probelm is in the phones, but how would my phone selecively give busy signals to some callers and not others? If anyone has had a similar problem or especailly a solution. I would like to hear.
Om, I wished I had found this post of yours before I posted my 11/11/05 blog post entitled “‘F’ Stands For ‘FiOS’ and ‘Frustration'”. It is quite lengthy now due to two “ATTENTION UPDATES” ON 1/4/06 AND 1/8/06 that are near the bottom of the post.
http://www.brokerblogger.com/brokerblogger/2005/11/fstandsfor_fi.html
I have been in contact with Verizon about many issues since 7/05, and I think you’ll find that my post possibly answers the technological and marketing reasons of why Verizon is doing what they are doing.
I have linked to this post in mine. I certainly liked the great comments you have here, and I also linked to two of them ! THANKS.
Bill Kelm
I noticed the blog from Lewisville, and have a somewhat different story. We moved in Nov, 2005. In moving our Verizon service we were sold the Fios package of phone, internet and TV. At that time the equipment was not in place to put Fios TV down the fiber, so a DIRECTV team shows up to install a dish. We finally got Verizon to install the fiber TV link, which is nice, but when I asked them about cutting off the DIRECTV service (we were getting billed from DIRECTV seperately), they said we had to contact DIRECTV. Of course DIRECTV claims we have a full year commitement and won’t discontinue monthly billings. Verizon has gone stupid and claims to know nothing about arranging for the DIRECTV service. I’m am now looking for a throat that I can grasp with my hands and squeeze very tightly till this issue is resolved.
Are you not eligible to unbundle the Verizon triple play package? Meaning just get phone and internet only and tell them you can only sensibly get the TV part of the package once your Direct TV contract expires. At that point, they might be able to further assist you in the interest of their business (aka less support & customer service phone calls from customers). When they came to install the Fiber TV, was there no documentation they provided (or something to sign off on, like a work order)? Also when the Direct TV people showed up, did they not provide any documentation? One thing I can note about most large corporations is that you need to keep a paper trail for yourself that they can somehow reference/crosscheck with their massive consumer databases across multiple business units. Sometimes even within the same company, one department does not have much authority or communication with another; this is especially the case when work is outsourced to contractors and consulting companies. I suggest if you can find a liason type of person within the company that likely has contact with all three sides (phone, broadband and TV). At this point, he/she might handle your case individually and do some/most of the legwork for you. When they sell you the packages, those are generally call center reps who are not completely aware of things on the backend; they follow case and script. Generally the cancellation department of any company usually keeps in touch with most/all of the respective groups. Heck I still get CDs and phonecalls from AOL trying to offer me their services; I haven’t had their services since about 7 years. I remember when I tried cancelling with them…they tried to solve all my problems. When I called tech support and customer service, I was getting nowhere. All of a sudden they’re offering me X number of free months and working to resolve the issue. I just had it at that point and gave them the boot and also learned of other internet options available to me. Keep in mind, their biggest competitor are the cable companies and any mention of you switching over to them should help “escalate your trouble tickets.” Good luck.
Wake up Verizon is a monopoly!!! the cable industry doesnt come close to the profits of Verizon. And yes once they are the only choice, Im sure prices will go down, yea right. We are so lucky to have a Big Monopoly company like this to look out for us.
Quite an interesting discussion. I work for many governments that are evaluating FiOS franchise requests, and who face the loss of local controls (including most consumer protections) if Verizon, AT&T, and the other phone companies get national or statewide franchising bills passed.
The loss of copper is a concern to local governments for exactly the reasons stated in this thread: Loss of the ability to return to copper, and the loss of competition (since the FCC has ruled that telephone companies who offer service via fiber need not offer their fiber to competitors as they must now do with their copper last miles.
A close look at the terms of the FiOS franchises (many are posted at CableTV.com/forum.php) shows that Verizon is betting on national or no franchising.
When the public wakes up, they’ll find that competition has been reduced…not just video, but also for alternative telco providers.
Jonathan Kramer
CableTV.com/forum.php
Verizon seems to be the only company spending millions upon millions of dollars to provide YOU with a trio of digital services. Telephony, Data, Video. If and when another company tries to overlay an entire network and undercuts Verizons prices and offers better services we all will be on that band-wagon. Well, maybe no one reading this will be alive by then but hey your kids or perhaps their kids will be around to make those choices. Long Live the “here and now” which equates to long live VERIZON. Verizon F.I.O.S. crushes any other service in this country…regardless of what the unfortunate few have to gripe about their experiences. Make educated choices looking at the big picture.
“..regardless of what the unfortunate few have to gripe about their experiences.”
I wonder if Dano realizes what one unhappy FiOS customer said would be EVERYBODY’s experience with FiOS: “..he was unhappy with the “digging up on his property”, the battery replacement annual costs, the “huge box nailed to his house”, and the potential loss of web and phone service if the dead battery isn’t replaced quickly.” See = http://www.myfios.net/viewtopic.php?t=101
Check out this article on why all the recent telco mergers “mean more services but not necessarily cheaper prices” for consumers = http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0307/p01s01-usec.html
Neighbor has FIOS FUll Monty installed. Wife works for Verizon. CABLE wire extant from ground to where it was disconnected from lightning arrestor. Coax from FIOS box now connects to arrestor and thence to the house. New CAT5 cable runs from box to hole in soffit, presumably to location of router. Looks like Verizon ran that cable. Copper POTS cable still comes up from ground to Verizon demarc. CAT5 cable from FIOS box runs into the demarc. Presumably pairs from UG cable have been insulated and stored (to use telco terminology). Beige wire from FIOS box runs thru new hole drilled in wall to power supply mounted on wall in garage. The original cable and phone wire coming from the street (all buried service here) has not been removed.
My install date is 14 July. Verizon says they will NOT migrate my phone lines to FIOS as I ordered a NEW service, NEW account and did not order phone service. I’ve ordered 15/5 data service and basic television (130 or so channels) with three STB for my analog TVs. No premium channels ordered. I have two copper POTS lines coming to house from Verizon. One line has DSL on it, but I do not pay Verizon for DSL. The circuit belongs to my Internet provider. Verizon doesn’t bill me for data and cannot take down the circuit without permission from the owner of the circuit. I’ve got a recording of the conversation with Verizon sales, tech rep and “supervisor” each told point blank that if they migrated my telephone lines from the copper this would be a deal breaker. Each responded that POTS lines would not be touched, as the FIOS order does not reference my phone service in any way. So we will see what we will see.
I will definitely be home on install day with a large blunt instrument handy. When they get here they will find a standard telco style backboard installed on garage wall inside, a properly drilled hole with conduit and weatherseal, (rather a hole in the brick stuffed with silicone seal), a length of CAT6 cable sufficient to go through the hole to the box outside, MilSpec grade terminations and tools for same. I’ve got a WINXP hayburner computer to use for setting up the Wireless AP/Router they are providing. Once they prove the wired and wireless connections function, I will take it from there, thank you very much. I have no desire for them to install software of any kind on the computers on my network. There is a dedicated 110v outlet on the backboard, and a place for my own UPS which will feed their battery box. Why this, you ask? I understand that when local power fails, only the telephone service is supplied by the battery. I’ll investigate this further. I have a UPS which should run the system for about 36 hours.
So we shall see what we shall see. I’ll report back when the dust settles.
— Doc
you guys are making me nervous with all these complaints,as i am having fios internet installed next week 7- 17-06. oh well heres hoping for the best.
I don’t see what the big problem is with them removing the copper. I’ve seen plenty of people get away with them leaving the copper alone. Me? I’m having them remove the copper. I believe in fiber. Fiber is the future. It’s about time we (the US) are beginning to use this technology.
On a side note: I’ve been waiting for FiOS to come to my home for well over a year now. Even signed up for them to e-mail me when it does become available. To my delightful surprise, a Door 2 Door Verizon employee came a few weeks ago and announced Verizon was going to be implementing its FiOS technology here in my neighborhood (Northern VA). Verizon is going to be coming to my home next week to install it and I am extremely elated as I have been waiting for this technology for so long.
And the best part? I pay DSL prices ($15 a month!) until my current subscription ends in 7 months time for 5MB/2MB UP that’s a terrific deal. I am happy with Verizon and I am always going to support a company that’s willing to invest in new technology to provide the best Internet experience. I don’t really NEED the improved speed but I do want it, and I’m glad Verizon is giving it.
With all the discussion about loss of copper I didn’t see mention that fiber requires power. So, what is the risk impact from loss of power for sustained periods of time (e.g. terrorist attack or natural) and the always on copper line now is not anymore?
what I would like to know is some details on the contract, i know Verizon is a stickler for 1-year contracts that you have to pay an arm and a leg for. Also would like some information on the taxes…one of the reason I stopped doing business with them 2-years ago, don’t want to be paying for any Spanish War tax or my wife needs a new boat and my mistress needs a new car taxes that they are famous for. I mean if I have to pay $200 for them to come service my line I should not be paying taxes every month plus a line maintainence fee every month. So if any of you happy and non-happy Fios users out there can give me some info (North VA preffered) it would be appreciated. Also a freind of mine claims that they keep loosing the tv portion and always have to reset the service, anyone experiencing this?
I have FiOS, and I still have my copper. How? When the installer came I asked him not to remove the copper. He said nobody ever asked that before. He asked me why, and I told him that I want to continue to have the option of purchasing a DSL circuit from a competitor should I not be happy with FiOS. He said that was a good idea, and left the four pairs I had to the pole.
Way to go John B. With the increased attention that Verizon FiOS has been getting about this issue, they are more open to allowing the copper to be temporarily disabled vs. uninstalled, if someone knows to ask. I wish more people would ask: “I want to continue to have the option of purchasing a DSL circuit from a competitor should I not be happy with FiOS.” I think legally they have to allow it, but from a marketing perspective, it is not good for them.
However, most people don’t know what’s going on until it is too late. I blogged about how “FiOS Does Inconspicuous “No Turning Back To DSL” Disclosure”. Just click on my name to see that post.
“With all the discussion about loss of copper I didn’t see mention that fiber requires power. So, what is the risk impact from loss of power for sustained periods of time (e.g. terrorist attack or natural) and the always on copper line now is not anymore?”
Are you really suggesting that copper lines DONT need power? In the event of an “extended” power outage NOTHING would work, as eventually the power provided by the telcos would run out. Furthermore, most people now have phones that require power…which means that it doesn’t make much of a difference.
I have had FiOS for almost a year now, and have been completely satisfied. Verizon upgraded our service from DSL for free, and we are receiving another free upgrade soon to the next level of speed. I… don’t really care if there is any ocpper going to/from my house at all. As far as I am concerned, I won’t need it ever again. Fiber is the way to go!
As for their customer service, I have only had to call them once, and that wasn’t their fault to begin with. We had a new fence installed, and they cut the line with a post. Verizon was out the next day to fix the problem, even though they had not caused the interruption of service.
The only other problem I have had was with setting up a wireless network with the modem/router they provided. It was way too slow, and we tried to use a better router with it. After a few days of changing stuff around, it finally worked.
thanks verizon! 🙂
Why would anyone want to go back to DSL?
I sell Telecommunications for a large Telecom company who competes with verizon directly.
I have a 15Mb/s FIOS Connection at home and coming from DSL and Comcast why would you switch…?
Its like having many T1’s or a Fract T3 at your house. Granted its slow when this kiddies get home and start surfing porn…
Copper is dead. Fiber is here.
good unbias testing site: http://www.bandwidthplace.com
See your SPEED:
A Monopoly? Are you guys kidding me? Verizon is spending millions to make their network better. AT&T is converting to fiber in alot of areas as well. The cable companies are the true monopolys. I can only get Cablevision in my area. After a ton of problems, and installers in my home every other month trying to fix it and never getting it right, I gave Cablevision the boot. I wanted to go with Time-Warner Cable, but guess what? This is Cablevision’s area so the only cable choices I have is Cablevison or nothing. I can’t have DirecTV in my building so I’m stuck with only regular over the air TV. I can’t wait for FIOS to finally get here. And about profit? The cable companies charge around $50 or more for their crappy phone service while it only costs them pennies a month, while Verizon is spending a ton of cash to improve their phone and internet, and enter the TV market. cablevision makes so much money ripping people off that they now own Madison Square Garden and the NY Knicks. I’ve been with Verizon since forever, and it’s staying that way. 1 or 2 problems in 20 years is way better than the 1 or 2 problems I had EVERYDAY with Cablevision.
Duh! Half of you guys that think you’re getting fiber to the home are not. Look at AT&T and Bell South’s presentation. They are still using the copper to your homes, they’re just putting fiber up to a certain point and then tweeking your copper lines for VDSL.
Its a dualopoly, plain and simple. They (the incumbents) fought it out in the courts and won (can’t believe this judges are so blind) and now you’ll have either cable or a Bell. And prices will remain basically the same.
No real competition to our demise.
Read around. You’re wrong, they bring the fiber optic straight to the side of your house and bring in a network cable to a router from the box mounted outside your home. It is not like other companies. Research it before posted false info.
FYI in ny the copper on the side of your house is owned by verizon. if u go to a competitor it is still verizons copper, ALL OF IT!!these cheap co’s dont own any copper outside. if you have phone trouble verizon first checks all the way to the end of the drop and your phone company is responsible after this. fios is the way of the future there will be no trouble on the lines w/fiber. if you are having problems it is in YOUR home unless its a hit pole, fiber doesnt fail!! the fiber starts at a hub and is brought inside your house to an o n t where cat5 picks it up and distributes it. there is a 12 hr back up battery on the o n t. copper also needs el but it is supplied at the central office, if you dont like fios/ verizon feel free to call our competitors get pricing see how slow they are and switch,. why should verizon supply these 2nd rate companies with copper?they have ridden on the back of verizon for too long and need to stand on their own. remember though you get what you pay for…
luv cwa you have to be a manager posting as a tech. you are right about fiber being supperior to copper. but i true tech hates the stuff already. it is great to put in for the over time. but because it will not fail that means less jobs for field techs and that isnt something we want. i will keep the failing copper any day of the week it keeps me working!
Fios is the future, unfortunately I live in the nothern NE states were verizons is trying to sell. The companey called Fairpoint is telling the three northen states that there’s a lot of life left in that copper.Though we see Verizon tear down copper everytime they install fios.So I guess we in NH, Me, and Vt will only have Comcast to deliver true high speed. By the way the ceo of fairpoint announced he will retire 6 months after the deal is done. Something stinks about this deal.
I live in south Long Beach, CA. I had FiOS internet scheduled for installation next week (27 Apr, 2007). When I heard about not being able to switch back to DSL later to take advantage of price drops, the sales rep confirmed that this is indeed the case. There is no going back. I asked to cancel the installation unless the copper line was left in place to give me a “retreat path”. They would not grant even this concession, and went ahead and cancelled the installation. Verizon is less than forthcoming to consumers about this pitfall. I deal squarely with people always. I shouldn’t have to “read between the lines” with large, supposedly respectable companies.
May 19, 2007
Kucinich supports New England unions to block Verizon deal
SALE TO BE CHALLENGED AT FCC, SEC AND IN CONGRESS
PORTSMOUTH, NH (May 19) – – Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich told a cheering crowd of nearly 1,000 labor and community activists from New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont that he would intervene to block Verizon’s sale of its rural telecom business to Fairpoint, Communication. The action sets the stage for a dramatic showdown between unions who are challenging the sale and the nation’s telecommunications industry which has long been immune from significant challenges for its failure to provide rural communities equal access to fiber optic service.
Kucinich, chairman of the Domestic Policy subcommittee of the Government Oversight and Reform Committee of the House of Representatives, announced at Prescott Park on the banks of Portsmouth Harbor, that he would hold a hearing to review Verizon’s sale to Fairpoint.
Additionally, the Ohio Democrat, whose subcommittee has jurisdiction over the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) said he would ask both the FCC and the SEC to closely examine the deal to determine whether or not the agreement between Verizon, the number two telecom company and Fairpoint, the number 15 telecom company was in the public interest.
“Rural communities would be left on the other side of the digital divide. Verizon doesn’t want to serve rural communities in the tri-state and, based on its finances, Fairpoint can’t. This deal doesn’t pass the smell test.”
Kucinich pointed out that Verizon would own 60% of Fairpoint stock and have six of nine members on the Fairpoint board of directors. “This sounds like a deal for Verizon to shed their responsibilities to rural areas and break the unions by spinning off to a company that has had serious financial troubles and a poor track record for protecting jobs and benefits.”
Addressing the concerns of members of the two unions who are spearheading the opposition to the sale, the International Brotherhood of Electric Workers (IBEW) and the Communications Workers of America
(CWA) who have thousands of jobs on the line, Kucinich said: “We know what deals like this usually mean. They mean less service. They mean cuts in wages. They mean lost jobs. They mean outsourcing. They mean higher utility rates. They mean less freedom, as access to the future of internet is limited to millions of Americans in rural areas. We must not stand for this. We must assert the right of the people to have control over these public utilities. There are legal issues at a state and federal level. There are regulatory issues and there are constitutional issues. And all the issues will be explored.”
Kucinich harkened to his experience of more than thirty years ago, when, as a young Mayor of Cleveland, he began an effort to save the city-owned electric system, Muny Light, from a takeover by the Cleveland Electric Illuminating Company (CEI), the privately owned utility. The experience he gained in challenging the sale gave him a wealth of experience, he said, to prepare him to be of assistance to the people of New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont who are challenging Verizon’s sale.
For further information: Please contact Andy Juniewicz at (216) 409-8992
Authorized and Paid for Kucinich for President 2008
copper is left in the ground. IT is disconnected from your NID for lightning protection to lots of dollars worth of equipment that you are given free.
i am a telco lineman and fiber is the way of the future, 1.)it doesn’t degrade and 2.) unless you bend it more than 90 dgrees or put a post or shovel through it it cant be killed except for a disconnect somewhere along the way( central office, cross box, or pole hit. incidently the company i work for runs fiber to the cross box and copper to the house and video will be supplied over the copper to a hub INSIDE customers home where data voice and video will be distributed over thier respective mediums.
My only problem with FiOS has been that I was disconnected from the internet service, around the time my 1 yr contract was up. I called to find out why I was disconnected. But nobody knew why, just that ther was an order for termination of service, and the could not stop it. My service was reintated the folling day at noon,
Has anybody had this problem?
The other problem was just a few months after I had my internet service, the TV service become available. So I ordered the next day my internet was out. Some how when they added the TV service it messed up the internet service. I had to wait a whole day, while they closed the account and started it again with internet and TV service together.
The video quality with my Verizon FiOS TV service is superb, but with it I don’t get the MASN 2 (Mid-Atlantic Sports Network 2) channel. As a result I’ve been unable to watch quite a few ball games. And I can’t get the Golf Channel unless I pay an extra $8 per month! Also can’t record programs on DVDR or VCR. Frustrating!
I ordered fios over three weeks ago with an expected install date of last wednesday… they botched it. no phones, no internet and no fax at my law office and no install date in sight. BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!
MY HOUSEHOLD HAS BEEN INUNDATED WITH FIOS ADVERTIZING VIA MAIL,PHONE,INTERNET AND DOOR TO DOOR SALESMEN FOR ABOUT A YEAR OR SO IT SEEMS. ALTHOUGH I WAS HAPPY WITH CABLE I DECIEDED ,HEY FREE TV AND A SAVINGS ABOUT $40/MONTH I WILL TRY IT. WE HAD INSTALL LAST WEEK. LET ME JUST SAY MY SEARCH HAS ENDED. I WAS WONDERING WHERE THAT BIG BAG OF ASSHOLES WAS AND NOW I KNOW THEY WORK IN EVERY DEPT. IN VERIZON FIOS.
FROM THE INSTALLER WHO USED MY CABLE COMPANY WIRING TO HOOK UP HIS BOXES TO CUSTOMER SERVICE WHO JUST OUTRIGHT LIE THAT SOMEONE WILL BE OUT TOMORROW TO CHECK OUR GREEN COMPLEXIONS AND TV’S THAT FIOS IS JUST NOT WORKING. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE INCOMPETENCE AND PLAIN POOR SERVICE.
ABOUT THE WORST I HAVE EVER HAD ANYWHERE.AND LEST YOU THINK PERHAPS I AM A CABLE CO. EMPLOYEE, I HAVE VERIZON WIRELESS,VERIZON INTERNET SERVICE AND VERIZON LAND LINE.NO PROBLEMS THERE. BUT THESE FIOS PEOPLE HAVE ME SO PEEVED I AM CONTEMPLATING REPLACING THESE VERIZON SERVICES.
SINCE IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO REACH ANY CORPORATE PEOPLE I AM HOPING THIS GETS BACK TO CHIEF ASSHOLE IN FIOS CORPORATE VIA SOME WAY.
I RARELY IF EVER COMPLAIN EVEN WHEN I GET POOR SERVICE IN ANTHING. BUT THIS WAS SO OUTRAGEOUSLY POOR I DID TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE THIS.
I just had my Fios Internet and phone installed. The tech was a good guy to work with. The only drawback I had was that he came right at the end of the two hour window period. However, I was happy to see my cable go away. Fortunately, I was able to do a speed test with my cable modem and my newly installed FIOS Internet as I had not shut off my cable modem service with Charter. Wow! What a surprise blazing speed with my hard wired computer at close to the promised 15/2 speed. Tests ranged from 14/2 to 15/2. As for the wireless, speed was still good but not as my hard wired computer. I guess it also depends on how old your computer is. My brother’s laptop got at least 13/2 speed and my old Compaq ranged from 4/2 to 9/2.
The sales rep was great. She offered me the various options and whenever I had a question just to test her, she was very courteous and answered my questions with no b.s. answers. I guess it just depends on what FIOS office you get. When I called the general FIOS number listed on my bill, they couldn’t really help me with pricing and didn’t have access to the special price packaging. Funny thing is that they had to refer to my local FIOS service number (local as in State). So glad I got connected to my local FIOS customer service/sales center in Ca. I spent at least 45 minutes with the sales rep on the phone discussing various packages and in the end was happy with my deal. I’m saving at least an extra $20 a month on my phone/internet bill. Glad I switched even though I was a bit apprehensive with having to have a power supply to make my system work. Oh well, we deal more with Earthquakes in California. NOt that many to worry about.
“I have seen the light with Verizon Fios”
I called Verizon FIOS to order phone, internet, and cable prior to my move in. My Consumer Order Summary was dated 3-28-08, and the scheduled installation date was 4-7-08. I reviewed the e-mail and all looked well. I move into my new house and install date comes. They setup an 8 AM-noon window. I already had the Optical Network Terminal unit (ONT) in my house, so I figured this would be cake for them. I am a Sys Admin at an ISP, so the internet stuff I could do myself with ease.
On install day, no one showed, no one called. I had my mobile with me at ALL times. So around 1:30 PM I called Verizon to see what was going on. If something came up, I had a week off to move in and if they needed to come by in a day or two, I was totally cool with that. After about an hour on hold I got in touch with a “state level” dispatcher. That said that there were “no facilities available for my order” and I was called. Nope, I wasn’t called; they did have my cell (which I had with me all of the time) in their records. I wanted them to come out later in the week if possible since I was home. They said that their next available time for me was 4-12-08, which was a day where I was going to a wedding. The next available time after that was at the end of the month, on a work day for me.
Basically because they did not show up, or even notify me with a reason, they put me at the back of the line. I was trying to escalate my request and the support only gave me unreasonable dates and that “no facilities available for my order” BS. I later wanted to get my copper line put back so I could at least get phone service, and after a long wait in hold they gave me the end of the month as a date. Basically I was being run around in circles and being shoved to the end of the line because Verizon screwed up my installation. I was told the only way I could get it sooner is if I “knew an installer who’d do me a favor,” and I was pretty much screwed with the window of time I had to get the service installed. The salesperson fed me a load of bull and the installer didn’t even call me with a reason. I tried to figure out what “no facilities available for my order” meant, and why this was such a problem since I already had the ONT in my house. Half of their work was already done.
The same day, I called a local cable company who installed my phone, internet, and cable the next day. They showed up on time and did the normal pre and post appointment verification. I unplugged the ONT in my house and let the battery go out. Verizon gave me such a lousy customer experience I swore I would never do business with them, and be sure to let other people know about their awful customer service and commitments they setup and do not honor. Verizon screwed up prior when they bought Bell Atlantic, and screwed up our perfectly find DSL service I had around 98/99. My money is going to a competitor, and Verizon won’t see if because they have abysmal customer service. I am certainly interested in fiber optic lines connected to my house, but so long as Verizon is the only provider, I will happily do without.
James
Herndon, VA
I had a very bad experience with a Verizon representative who came to the door of my small store today. He told me that he was there to change our wiring type from POTS (copper) to a newer system, that Verizon was trying to change all their accounts to. He never mentioned FIOS, or any TV or DSL service (we don’t get those from Verizon – only phone service), so I got the impression that it was some sort of wiring upgrade that didn’t change service. I refused to let him see my bill or phone Verizon from my phone, but I did listen to his explanation of the new wiring, and wrote it all down. He said the reason for the change was to reduce our FCC line charges because of lower maintenance costs, but that there would be no other costs at all to us, and no change in our service. I wrote this information down, and said I would call Verizon after thinking it over. He said that calling Verizon was his job, and that he would call from my phone. I said he could not, but offered to take down his name so that if he got any commission from convincing me to change our wire, I could give him credit if I called Verizon. He became insistent, and said “You don’t understand – that’s my job to call Verizon!” He also told me that we “had” to change our wiring (or what? our service would be disconnected? he didn’t say). I politely said that I would call Verizon, and asked him to leave. He did not leave, and kept insisting – “You don’t understand! You can’t call Verizon – I have to do that now, or I’ll get in trouble at my job!” He kept repeating this. I asked him to leave again, and he still would not – and then a second representative came in, and the first guy started to loudly complain – “she doesn’t understand – I have to make this call!” I was getting actually a little frightened, because I was the only person in the store, and they wouldn’t leave. However, when I asked them to leave a third time, the second guy said, “Ok, we’ll come back,” and got the first guy out. I called Verizon immediately to say how deceptive and even threatening this guy had been, and the rep told me she was sorry, and that the man was not an employee, but an “authorized agent” (he had a badge). Then she told me that I was indeed eligible for FIOS service! Like I was going to sign up for it now!
************************************************************************************************************************************************Removing copper from your house is not Verizon’s attempt of monopolizing fios .The reality is Verizon is moving awy from copper services.They are spending billions on a fiber network to replace the copper network.They are working on phasing out copper,especially in fiber areas it doesn’t make sense to support 2 networks.They are phasing copper out.And people are lucky they are giving them time and not forcing everyone to switch over.But if you really wanted dsl you don’t have to wait until another company offers services over fiber(which should never be allowed cable companies aren’t subject to this)there are smaller companies that offer dsl over existing copper networks.If you were to choose one of these companies Verizon would come out and run a new copper line and give you service through a different company.There are options.But if you really think about it from a business stand point companies need to move forward,technology is changing and the network needs to change you don’t invest in what’s going away just because a certian few still want it.Lets take the auto industry for instance just because you liked the style and price of the Ford Pinto doesn’t mean that Ford has to keep producing the same car and parts for thirty years because you happened to like it.It doesn’t make sence.
there is no monopoly guys. a cable/phone/internet provider is only allowed to have one “drop” at each house.when you have fios you still have copper throught your house. fiber is only the transfer of light “frequencies” that have to be converted into “data” with this copper is required.the reason they dont want to change back to dsl is because you need copper from the pole to your house. once the fiber is installed it is a very expensive cable and a much more efficient way to transfer data.when you have dsl you are connected to your network provider with copper and when you have fiber you are connected with glass. there is no resistance or electrical potential with glass.
My FIOS installation took 11 hours! I have a small ranch… they kept running into line errors of some sort. It’s up now – I lost the ability to record with my VCR and DVD recorder (this is not the Verizon one). I can’t spend another $13 a month on that! I also lost my “distinctive ring” special line. They told me when I ordered that everything would remain the same… so far, it has cost me an extra $5/mo to get the distinctive ring line back, and if I want to record anything, another $13 – there’s $18 more a month. They did give me 3 STBS for FREE – no monthly charges. HERE’S MY QUESTION: WHEN I TRY TO REGISTER MY COMPUTER FIOS AND IT ASKS FOR MY EMAIL AND PASSWORD, it gets to the next section but then loops back to “enter email and password” part… it just keeps going in a circle. I’ve turned off my Antivirus – rebooted – tried everything. I can get on the Internet, but what could be causing this problem? ANYONE? ANYONE? 🙂 thanks.
elle you should be able to record with a dvd or a vcr off an available a/v output of the cable box.what model cable box do you have and how is it connected to your tv right now ? are you recieving error messages when you log on to your email.are your cookies shut off,is active x installed?if your not sure what these are call 18885531555 for help,kind of sounds like the email wasn’t set up the people @ that # can help you.
Also Ford didn’t go out and collect all the old Pinto’s.
There is no reason to remove the copper, except gor GTE’s
own benefit. The “asset” has been depreciated, it doesn’t require maintenance, as it sits idle with FiOS.
(Although a 900 pair cable that gets damaged by a Pole/Car crash has to be completely repaired, regardless of the number of users on the cable )
Also most of Calif. and parts of the West have NO Choice for local Telephone service. Other states in the Union can order Local service for various vendors. Out here, we ONLY have Verizon or SBC. So in that sense, there will never be a local choice.
I want Fios, but frankly the Copper thing really stops me.
We don’t hear enough success stories either.
Anyone have experience with a Second Phone number over Fios? I went from two copper lines to one copper with the second Ph# coming in on Distinctive Ring (seems they could’nt fix the one bad pair: they kept saying: we see fiber back there, just go FiOs !!!).
I really want that second line, Dist.Ring is Ok.
Any idea of upcharge?
Fios pricing is great. Same as DSL + 2 Lines, + calling plan…..I wonder if they will honor the pricing after 1 year? Seems their pricing has remained stable for the last 3 years. THANKS
Although it may seem like a small amount, there’s gold in them thar copper drops! At the price of copper nowadays, if VZ recovers and “scraps” every copper drop post-FiOS install, cumulatively, it would represent allot of $$$. ie: 1 million new FiOS customers = 1 million “scrapped” copper drops = allot of $$$. One would think that VZ should have the right to recover, recycle, and off-set FiOS installation costs by using this practice. No? They originally incurred the cost of the copper install.
phdr actually ford did have a massive recall because of rear end collisions with the pinto.but any ways you do have a choice in local providers it part of federal deregulation they have to open up copper to smaller competitors,they repair cables for the spare pairs,which is what your old pair becomes,if you live in an area thats known for cable troubles your old pair will be gone in a month and your old drop sits wired to nothing but your house,agian serving no purpose but clutterin g the side of your house,but i don’t know why we are disscusing this they no longer remove copper drops and haven’t for at least a year.so everyone move on from the drop issue.
copper has to be completely stripped of all other materials before you can recycle it, it is not worth it for the small amount there is in a drop,it would take thousands of feet to recover a pound.
does anyone know when is fios is coming to bethlehem,pa area